[Commpsych] Lizzie's reply to david Fryer
Brian Bishop
B.Bishop at curtin.edu.au
Thu Jun 28 15:46:18 WST 2007
HI David,
You may wonder why I (Lizzie Finn) haven't got involved in the Australian Community Psychology network electronic discussion about the research award I was given. When I left Curtin University, I was cut off from their email network and the Oz comm. psych list was something I forgot to replace on my current email (Brian Bishop is kindly sending this out for me and I am due to be put back on the email list). However, I have since seen some of the discussion and wanted to respond. I have appreciated Adrian Fisher's comments and points in this discussion, which I agree with so I won't repeat them.
I have also enjoyed my conversations with you David particularly in Scotland over fish and chips! - and after seeing some of the emails you write via SCRA and other networks coming across my screen, I have come to the conclusion that you are something of an 'agent provocateur' - a role which has great benefits, it makes people think about what they are doing and why - and those are important questions.
I fully agree with your misgivings about US dominance in every sphere and believe there is potential here for both great darkness and great good - unfortunately in the world of international politics the former seems to be holding sway at the moment. But on a broader level I am aware that we cannot paint a whole population with one brush. I applied for the award for a number of reasons:
· firstly I have met a number of researchers in SCRA both at a conference in the USA and via a small group of USA-SCRA researchers who came over to support a community psychology conference in Western Australia in the late 90s. SCRA is a body which has actively supported and networked with us in the far Antipodes - and we have benefited from this and enjoyed a fruitful exchange of ideas. Given the difficulties in Australia, particularly Western Australia, in getting a community psychology hearing in the political and funding arena, I admired the SCRA founders who were clinical psychologists when they broke away from traditional mainstream mental health frameworks of practice to set up a body which has given community psychology a much stronger profile in research and practice in America. I am sure the European counterpart of SCRA is doing a similar job with students networked into its net.
· secondly, I am aware from my readings that there are some innovative, thoughtful and compassionate researchers in SCRA who are helping to promote much needed change particularly in the mental health area. As such I had no hesitation in applying for an award from SCRA - and indeed seeing their award as a benchmark - it was a great reward for the long marathon I undertook in my GROW research journey. If I had heard of a similar European award I would have applied for that also (if there is one, please let me know) and it certainly would be good to network more with Europe from Australia- how do we do this?
I've become a bit of a political animal myself over time (I think you have to if you seek to be an effective community psychologist) - and am aware that winning an award will help me as a researcher to get funding when I apply for it, and also helps the organizations I research - GROW is already labeling the research I did as 'award winning' in a bid to get more funding for a mutual help group body which I believe has a sacred community trust - bringing people who have experienced mental health problems, with the sense of failure and stigma and defeat which often accompanies same, back to life.
I think that's all I have to say ..... and look forward to hearing more from you as a critical ally over time, we need your provocation!!!
Best regards - are you planning to come over to Oz again?
Lizzie Finn
Brian Bishop, FAPS, FSCRA
Associate Professor
School of Psychology
Curtin University
CRICOS provider code 00301J
________________________________
From: commpsych-bounces at lists.curtin.edu.au on behalf of Adrian Fisher
Sent: Fri 22/06/2007 7:35 AM
To: David Fryer; Brian Bishop; commpsych at lists.curtin.edu.au; Anna Warne (E-mail); Chantal Nel (E-mail); Contos and Heath Warren Natalie (E-mail); Costello Diane (E-mail); David Vicary; Jennie Price (E-mail); Karen Johnson (E-mail); Kendra Swaine (E-mail); Laura Willis; Lizzie Finn; Melinda Redmond (2/04/2007 - Ceased Employment); Peta Dzidic (E-mail); Ron Baker (E-mail); Simon Colquhoun (E-mail); Susan Griffiths (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [Commpsych] (no subject)
Dear David (and Dawn) and all,
A critical perspective is one of the tools of our trade, or should be. However, within a critical context, we can understand some problematic elements and attempts.
One critical element I always find fascinating is semiotics, as we know, about symbols, communication and construction of meaning. How the communication is constructed, what it is intended to convey, and what the receivers perceive are aspects of the chain that may be broken.
Earlier there was some discussion on SCRA-L about critical approaches and personalisation. How and where a critique is framed, and even by whom, carries so much meaning. Placing the critical approach without the context seems to remove the intended meaning from the communicator.
Another problem is the one I was taught way back in second year psychology. The logical fallacy ad hominem, Dawn.
However, let us return to the original case. An email is circulated to celebrate an Australian student's award of a thesis prize (and a thesis is not usually at the standard for which the Robyn Winkler Award is made). David responded, addressing the email to the recipient, and made a number of comments. Perhaps this is the paragraph that we can contest whether the conveying of meaning is critical theory or perhaps mis-spoken:
I am reluctant to leave unchallenged the positioning of your work to support an implication that US CP has any legitimacy at all in setting criteria of excellence in community psychology against which community psychology around the world in general or Australia in particular should be judged. In my view community psychologists around the world need to resist having their work compared against a US CP measuring stick.
To me, this is an attack not on US hegemony, it is an attack on a student receiving an award. Condemned as a fellow traveller. It is also contains a couple of variations of argumentum ad hominem.
David and I have discussed on a number of occasions the issues of problems of US domination in CP, and psychology more generally. We have agreed that there is the need for finding ways in which this domination can be challenged and alternatives developed in order for local and more appropriate models to be implemented.
However, we differ in the tactics, in the levels of engagement, and on the aspects of what is to be done at the local level. For many of us in Australia working in community psychology education programs, the necessity of international engagement is an imperative. The necessity to demonstrate to those who make decisions that this is a discipline that is vital, active and has recognition beyond our borders is an imperative. Otherwise, our programs are likely no to be in existence for too much longer.
Adrian
Adrian Fisher PhD
Associate Professor
School of Psychology
Victoria University -- Footscray Park
PO Box 14428
Melbourne VIC 8001
Australia
PH: +613-9919-5221
Fax: +613-9919-4324
www.staff.vu.edu.au/commpsych
________________________________
From: commpsych-bounces at lists.curtin.edu.au [mailto:commpsych-bounces at lists.curtin.edu.au] On Behalf Of David Fryer
Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2007 6:04 PM
To: Adrian Fisher; Brian Bishop; commpsych at lists.curtin.edu.au; Anna Warne (E-mail); Chantal Nel (E-mail); Contos and Heath Warren Natalie (E-mail); Costello Diane (E-mail); Dave Vicary (E-mail); Jennie Price (E-mail); Karen Johnson (E-mail); Kendra Swaine (E-mail); Laura Willis (E-mail); Lizzie Finn (E-mail); Melinda Jeffs (E-mail); Peta Dzidic (E-mail); Ron Baker (E-mail); Simon Colquhoun (E-mail); Susan Griffiths (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [Commpsych] (no subject)
Hi Adrian and all,
I appreciate that it is difficult for many of us to separate out 'critical' (in the sense of critical theory i.e. the surfacing and contesting of the social processes and procedures through which ideological oppression is achieved), which I am interested in doing and think is an important part of community critical psychology, from negative evaluation of individual people (which I am not interested in doing and don't see as part of community critical psychology). I do think it is important to distinguish between them and to do the former. That is made difficult because oppressive practices and auto oppressive practices are enacted by nice people of good intention just like us - in fact by us - so reflexive critical processing of our own practices is especially difficult to distinguish from criticism of the people who enact the practices. Nevertheless, though difficult, I think it is important for us to do it if we are serious about progressive practice. Some of us have got used, at least to some extent, to attempting to surface and critique the processes through which other forms of oppression are constructed and maintained in our own practices (white privilege, male privilege, patriarchy etc.) and we don't try to exclude ourselves from the critique or excuse such practices as acceptable for building a career, organisational politics, political argy bargy etc. We have surely moved on from days when oppression was seen only as something done by tyrants to subjected populations . . . to understanding that oppression is achieved through 'govern-mentality' through the everyday nitty gritty of how we think and how we act. We need surely to be critically alert to our unintentional collusion with intellectual and ideological colonisation
I do think talk of insult to individuals misses the point completely but of course it is far easier to malign the intentions and character of anyone questioning practices than to engage with the critique articulated. . In case it is still not clear, I am not passing a judgement on the quality of the work or the motives of the individuals you mention and think that the very good CP work around the world does not need to submit itself to evaluation against the criteria of the dominant manifestation of the discipline and thereby further legitimate and empower it.
David
________________________________
From: Adrian Fisher [mailto:Adrian.Fisher at vu.edu.au]
Sent: Thu 6/21/2007 01:16
To: David Fryer; Brian Bishop; commpsych at lists.curtin.edu.au; Anna Warne (E-mail); Chantal Nel (E-mail); Contos and Heath Warren Natalie (E-mail); Costello Diane (E-mail); Dave Vicary (E-mail); Jennie Price (E-mail); Karen Johnson (E-mail); Kendra Swaine (E-mail); Laura Willis (E-mail); Lizzie Finn (E-mail); Melinda Jeffs (E-mail); Peta Dzidic (E-mail); Ron Baker (E-mail); Simon Colquhoun (E-mail); Susan Griffiths (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [Commpsych] (no subject)
Dear David and other list members
I first read this email a couple of hours ago, early in the morning. My opinions have not changed.
To me, the email is an insult to Lizzie and her work, and an insult to Brian (noting my earlier email of congratulations is in there). Brian's email was a celebration of a great achievement, not a value judgement on other theses that were not submitted or did not receive and award.
What really gets to me is a lack of understanding of the context in which such awards are sought and the meanings that they may have in the location -- especially the importance of international recognition.
Why have I nominated students for SCRA awards? Why will I in the future, if I think the theses are good enough? Why will I encourage other student and supervisors to nominate?
1 There are no local awards, nor are there any other international ones that I know of that are relevant. Perhaps if the European Association had an open award Australians could win that too.
2 Such awards do provide recognition of the work of the student, and can assist them in their career progression.
3 In a marginalised area such as community psychology in Australia, such awards are extremely important in the organisational politics. They provide the supervisor with kudos from an international jury -- so important in most of our psych departments where we are often not seen as core business. In some universities there is big news made of a student paper receiving an award at a conference, here we can celebrate a PhD being judged in an international context.
4. For community psychology in Australia, marginalised within the profession, such awards provide international backing for the quality of the work done. It is the type of news that is spread around to demonstrate that here is an area working world standard.
It helps community psychology in positioning itself in the political argy bargy of things like the APS.
At another level, nominating for awards from SCRA is a political move. It is aimed at showing those in the US that there is a vibrant, active, and creative community psychology outside from which they can learn. Good enough to take their prizes.
So, again congratulations to Lizze on her thesis and to Brian on his supervision. Congratulations to Chris Sonn and Iain Butterworth on their earlier awards, congratulations to me as the supervisor of Iain and Chris, and congratulations to the students and supervisors who will nominate and win these awards in the future
Adrian
Adrian Fisher PhD
Associate Professor
School of Psychology -- Footscray Park Campus
Victoria University
PO Box 14428
Melbourne VIC 8001
Australia
Phone: +613-9919-5221
Fax: +613-9919-4324
Website: www.staff.vu.edu.au/commpsych
-----Original Message-----
From: commpsych-bounces at lists.curtin.edu.au on behalf of David Fryer
Sent: Thu 6/21/2007 7:44 AM
To: Adrian Fisher; Brian Bishop; commpsych at lists.curtin.edu.au; Anna Warne (E-mail); Chantal Nel (E-mail); Contos and Heath Warren Natalie (E-mail); Costello Diane (E-mail); Dave Vicary (E-mail); Jennie Price (E-mail); Karen Johnson (E-mail); Kendra Swaine (E-mail); Laura Willis (E-mail); Lizzie Finn (E-mail); Melinda Jeffs (E-mail); Peta Dzidic (E-mail); Ron Baker (E-mail); Simon Colquhoun (E-mail); Susan Griffiths (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [Commpsych] (no subject)
Dear Lizzie (and all on the list),
A message from a critical ally in Europe . . . I have not yet had the chance to read your thesis, Lizzie, but I have enjoyed our occasional conversations and hope you will read the following message as NOT about your thesis but as an expression of concern about multifaceted United Statesian military, economic, cultural; intellectual, ideological global domination. . . and what US military have referred to as the US drive for 'full spectrum dominance' in every sphere. Amongst many other domains, via its domination of community psychology textbook production, cp journal publishing, cp faculty employment, postgraduate training course mounting and its outreach activities, there is a real danger in my view of diverse community psychologies around the world being colonised by United Statesian CP.
I am reluctant to leave unchallenged the positioning of your work to support an implication that US CP has any legitimacy at all in setting criteria of excellence in community psychology against which community psychology around the world in general or Australia in particular should be judged. In my view community psychologists around the world need to resist having their work compared against a US CP measuring stick.
I am also loathe to leave unchallenged the implication that other PhD thesis which never in a million years receive a SCRA award are not 'good' . . . on the contrary I think that the type of innovative critical community psychology praxis, which I see as very good indeed, amongst the best community psychology in Europe, would not stand a chance of winning a SCRA award.
In my view community psychologists around the world have to be constantly vigilant that rather than it being the case that it is non United Statesian community psychologists "who have shown the USA what a good thesis looks like", the opposite is more often the case.
Surely Australian community psychology does not have to be measured for quality against a US yardstick?
David
________________________________
From: commpsych-bounces at lists.curtin.edu.au on behalf of Adrian Fisher
Sent: Mon 6/18/2007 02:41
To: Brian Bishop; commpsych at lists.curtin.edu.au; Anna Warne (E-mail); Chantal Nel (E-mail); Contos and Heath Warren Natalie (E-mail); Costello Diane (E-mail); Dave Vicary (E-mail); Jennie Price (E-mail); Karen Johnson (E-mail); Kendra Swaine (E-mail); Laura Willis (E-mail); Lizzie Finn (E-mail); Melinda Jeffs (E-mail); Peta Dzidic (E-mail); Ron Baker (E-mail); Simon Colquhoun (E-mail); Susan Griffiths (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [Commpsych] (no subject)
Hi
Big congratulations to Lizzie on the award, it is a major achievement.
Also, contrats to Brian as the supervisor.
adrian
Adrian Fisher PhD
Associate Professor
School of Psychology
Victoria University -- Footscray Park
PO Box 14428
Melbourne VIC 8001
Australia
PH: +613-9919-5221
Fax: +613-9919-4324
www.staff.vu.edu.au/commpsych
-----Original Message-----
From: commpsych-bounces at lists.curtin.edu.au
[mailto:commpsych-bounces at lists.curtin.edu.au] On Behalf Of Brian Bishop
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2007 1:50 PM
To: commpsych at lists.curtin.edu.au; Anna Warne (E-mail); Brian Bishop
(E-mail); Chantal Nel (E-mail); Contos and Heath Warren Natalie
(E-mail); Costello Diane (E-mail); Dave Vicary (E-mail); Jennie Price
(E-mail); Karen Johnson (E-mail); Kendra Swaine (E-mail); Laura Willis
(E-mail); Lizzie Finn (E-mail); Melinda Jeffs (E-mail); Peta Dzidic
(E-mail); Ron Baker (E-mail); Simon Colquhoun (E-mail); Susan Griffiths
(E-mail)
Subject: [Commpsych] (no subject)
Dear All
Dr Lizzie Finn won the Emory Cowan Memorial Thesis for 2006 for her
thesis entitled "Mutual help groups and psychological wellbeing:
A study of GROW, a community mental health organization". I was able to
collect the award on her behalf and the reception for her award was
overwhelming.
She joins the list of Iain Butterworth and Chris Sonn as Australians who
have shown the USA what a good thesis looks like.
Brian
Brian Bishop
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